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SirKibbles
Feb 26, 2011


Vox Nihili posted:

Valid evidence that cultural factors are involved? "Culture" shapes almost everything about the way you or I think. Our education and religious (or areligious) upbringing alone shape the way we process events at a very basic level. If you think people are so fundamentally identical, how do you explain mass rapes/assaults in Egypt (but would be unimaginable in the west), the mass shootings that occur with some frequency in America (but not nearly so much elsewhere), not to mention how protests/riots are acceptable in much of the world, responded to with great anxiety by the general public in America.

"Nature," or genetics, only shapes a portion of who we are. "Nurture," in which culture plays an absolutely enormous part, is unviersally recognized as being just as important in shaping the way each individual develops, thinks, feels, and acts.

What our rape rate is crazy high .Seriously we really don't have the info to even start having these arguments cool it.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006


SirKibbles posted:

We're not a hive mind asshole.

So are there any updates on whether or not there were more bombs?

I was specifically referring to Juan Williams and Mr. Genocide Advocator.

Mister Adequate
Oct 29, 2011


Baruch Obamawitz posted:



He looked fine (or whatever)

I dunno why, I think just the fact he's an older dude hit me, but I'm really relieved he seems to be okay and just a bit shaken up.

jet sanchEz
Oct 23, 2001


Wolf just said that one of the dead is an 8 year old child

A DENVER FAX
Jan 19, 2012


Jesus an 8 year old kid is one of the dead.

Just fuck this shit

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006


Ersatz posted:

No, it's not. Absent some pathology, it is universally the case, for example, that human beings exposed to sudden loud noises in otherwise quiet environments will exhibit a startle reflex.

Why are you citing reflexes as an example of an emotional reaction? Apart from the fact that a physical movement is obviously not an emotion, reflexes don't even enter the brain, which is the whole point of a reflex in the first place.

quote:

A reflex arc is a neural pathway that controls an action reflex. In higher animals, most sensory neurons do not pass directly into the brain, but synapse in the spinal cord. This characteristic allows reflex actions to occur relatively quickly by activating spinal motor neurons without the delay of routing signals through the brain, although the brain will receive sensory input while the reflex action occurs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex_arc

Are you trying to claim that my arm independently feels fright when I touch something hot? That's a unique claim, to say the least.

Seriously though, reactions to emotions are cued by societal context. If I'd slept with your daughter in the south, you might have a lynch mob. If I sleep with your daughter in a Muslim country, there's probably some Sharia law I could be sued under. If I do it in Norway people would look on either of those options pretty poorly. In that instance even the emotion you feel is not really universal, as some societies don't even have a problem with that.

The emotional state caused by terrorism in particular (fear, anger, hate, etc) are probably reasonably universal, but the reactions are not. As Americans, we are cued that we need to flip the fuck out about terrorism. After 9/11 people were calling for genocide and we're already seeing it again. There has to be social cueing that that is acceptable, and America provides that in spades (particularly regarding Muslims).

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2013 around 15:01

Chamale
Jul 10, 2010


jet sanchEz posted:

Wolf just said that one of the dead is an 8 year old child

Shit

Is that 3 dead now?

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008


SirKibbles posted:

What our rape rate is crazy high .Seriously we really don't have the info to even start having these arguments cool it.

I'm referring to the well-documented mass assaults on women that take place in Egypt, which don't really have an analogue in the west.

Cool it? Really?

SirFozzie
Mar 28, 2004


WBZ reporting that a Saudi was "acting suspiciously and running from the explosion". This person was tackled and turned over to the FBI for questioning. Then they say "this person denies any involvement in the bombing"


Because it's suspicious that he's running away from a couple explosions, eh?

Teddybear
May 16, 2009


Chamale posted:

Shit

Is that 3 dead now?

8 year old was one of the two reported dead on the scene.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006


jet sanchEz posted:

Wolf just said that one of the dead is an 8 year old child

Aw man.

Was there anymore on how close this was to the area that was hosting the Newtown shooting victims and their families? Not that I'm speculating they were targeted or anything, just, fuck, haven"t these people gone through enough?

Joementum
May 23, 2004


zoux posted:

Was there anymore on how close this was to the area that was hosting the Newtown shooting victims and their families? Not that I'm speculating they were targeted or anything, just, fuck, haven"t these people gone through enough?

They were across the street in the grandstand.

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010


SirFozzie posted:

WBZ reporting that a Saudi was "acting suspiciously and running from the explosion". This person was tackled and turned over to the FBI for questioning. Then they say "this person denies any involvement in the bombing"


Because it's suspicious that he's running away from a couple explosions, eh?

It'll be pretty unfortunate if everyone just blamed the first muslim they could get their hands on.

dethslayer666
Apr 4, 2009


SirFozzie posted:

WBZ reporting that a Saudi was "acting suspiciously and running from the explosion". This person was tackled and turned over to the FBI for questioning. Then they say "this person denies any involvement in the bombing"


Because it's suspicious that he's running away from a couple explosions, eh?
This guy's going to have one hell of a vacation story to tell his friends if he ever makes it back to Saudi Arabia.

Bhaal
Jul 12, 2001


Perhaps this is a more trivial concern right now but I'm curious about the stories of runners finishing and running right along to go donate blood. It certainly is an inspiring image, but would it be wise to do that after running for such an exhaustive stretch? Physiology really isn't my expertise so maybe there's no medical worries about taking blood from literally-just-finished marathon runners, but it'd seem to me you wouldn't want to mess with your CV system like that right after running/jogging for hours.

SirFozzie
Mar 28, 2004


Ack, double post. But.. just wow. I'm shook. I have family who work at the Pru. One of my online friends has an office two blocks away.

Stew Man Chew
Sep 14, 2008


Bhaal posted:

Perhaps this is a more trivial concern right now but I'm curious about the stories of runners finishing and running right along to go donate blood. It certainly is an inspiring image, but would it be wise to do that after running for such an exhaustive stretch? Physiology really isn't my expertise so maybe there's no medical worries about taking blood from literally-just-finished marathon runners, but it'd seem to me you wouldn't want to mess with your CV system like that right after running/jogging for hours.

They'll be disqualified to donate on site, pretty sure if they just kept going and were wearing their shorts / numbers the staff at any blood bank worth its salt would take one look and be like NOPE.

V yeah I'm sure they'll be like NOPE and then give them a tremendous high five or a hug or something

Captain Foo
May 10, 2004


Bhaal posted:

Perhaps this is a more trivial concern right now but I'm curious about the stories of runners finishing and running right along to go donate blood. It certainly is an inspiring image, but would it be wise to do that after running for such an exhaustive stretch? Physiology really isn't my expertise so maybe there's no medical worries about taking blood from literally-just-finished marathon runners, but it'd seem to me you wouldn't want to mess with your CV system like that right after running/jogging for hours.

Well even if the nurses/techs/whoever don't actually let them do it the sentiment is personified

jet sanchEz
Oct 23, 2001


Joementum posted:

They were across the street in the grandstand.

Apparently there was an unexploded device across the street from one of the two explosions but it hasn't been stated if it was under the grandstand where the Newtown families were seated.

Ersatz
Sep 17, 2005


Paul MaudDib posted:

Why are you citing reflexes as an example of an emotional reaction? Apart from the fact that a physical movement is obviously not an emotion, reflexes don't even enter the brain, which is the whole point of a reflex in the first place.
Note that in the sentence I was responding to, you do not mention emotion, but instead make the following broad claim:

Paul MaudDib posted:

The idea that there can be universal human responses is patently absurd (or "idiotic garbage" since you prefer the version with a personal insult in).
Reflexes are universal human responses.

Paul MaudDib posted:

Are you trying to claim that my arm independently feels fright when I touch something hot? That's a unique claim, to say the least.
Is it reasonable to believe that I am making this claim?

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006


Ersatz posted:

Note that in the sentence I was responding to, you do not mention emotion, but instead make the following broad claim:

Well, this discussion was completely in the context of emotional responses to a terroristic current event, but I guess I didn't follow D&D best-practices and turn every post into a laundry list of caveats to prevent someone from deliberately misreading a sentence and making a completely irrelevant point about how every human has an autonomic nervous system. Good catch there

Ersatz posted:

Is it reasonable to believe that I am making this claim?

Why else would you bring reflexes up when we were discussing various cultures' reactions to terrorism, particularly in a current-event thread about a terroristic event?

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2013 around 15:06

Chomskyan
Sep 5, 2011


Vox Nihili posted:

Valid evidence that cultural factors are involved? "Culture" shapes almost everything about the way you or I think. Our education and religious (or areligious) upbringing alone shape the way we process events at a very basic level. If you think people are so fundamentally identical, how do you explain mass rapes/assaults in Egypt (but would be unimaginable in the west), the mass shootings that occur with some frequency in America (but not nearly so much elsewhere), not to mention how protests/riots are acceptable in much of the world, responded to with great anxiety by the general public in America.

"Nature," or genetics, only shapes a portion of who we are. "Nurture," in which culture plays an absolutely enormous part, is unviersally recognized as being just as important in shaping the way each individual develops, thinks, feels, and acts.

I'm not sure culture has much to do with immediate emotional reactions to shocking events. That said, even if it does, all the examples you listed are flawed. Rapes occur at a high rate in the United States as mentioned earlier. Gun violence has a material explanation (there are more guns in the United States, thus there's more gun violence). Protests and riots have an economic explanations. There are riots in the United States as well, where there is poverty and strife.

Vox Nihili posted:

I'm referring to the well-documented mass assaults on women that take place in Egypt, which don't really have an analogue in the west.

Cool it? Really?

You should probably provide some sources and demonstrate that it is a uniquely Egyptian phenomena.

Ambrose Burnside
Aug 29, 2007


Paul MaudDib posted:

The emotional state caused by terrorism (fear, anger, hate, etc) are probably reasonably universal, but the reactions are not. As Americans, we are cued that we need to flip the fuck out about terrorism. After 9/11 people were calling for genocide and we're already seeing it again. There has to be social cueing that that is acceptable, and America provides that in spades.

The idea that culture doesn't heavily influence stuff like this is kind of blowing my mind. Look at the reaction here to things like reprehensible murders, where opinions on, say, whether prison should be for rehabilitation or punishment are so heavily divided between Americans and Europeans et al. Same thing with foreign intervention, or healthcare, or any other list of subjects where the US has a fundamentally-different zeitgeist irt the issue than other regions.

OneEightHundred
Feb 28, 2008


Stew Man Chew posted:

They'll be disqualified to donate on site, pretty sure if they just kept going and were wearing their shorts / numbers the staff at any blood bank worth its salt would take one look and be like NOPE.
"Just ran a marathon" isn't a deferral reason, if someone's feeling well and passes the mini-physical, that's about all they'll care about on that front. The only people in the marathon they have a reason to defer are people who were injured (for poor health and infection risk) or contacted people who were injured (for infection risk) or MAYBE are visibly exhausted.

OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2013 around 14:58

Dusseldorf
Mar 29, 2005


OneEightHundred posted:

"Just ran a marathon" isn't a deferral reason, if someone's feeling well and passes the mini-physical, that's about all they'll care about on that front. The only people in the marathon they have a reason to defer are people who were injured (for poor health and infection risk) or contacted people who were injured (for infection risk).

But it's still a good way to pass-out and take up the time of an overburdened hospital.

Stew Man Chew
Sep 14, 2008


Dusseldorf posted:

But it's still a good way to pass-out and take up the time of an overburdened hospital.

Yeah I wasn't concerned about the blood donated, I would be worried about the donor keeling over and requiring attention from what I would assume was an already burdened hospital staff.

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008


Chomskyan posted:

You should probably provide some sources and demonstrate that it is a uniquely Egyptian phenomena.

I'm talking about things like this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/201...ually-assaulted

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/27/w...alist-assaulted

Where literally hundreds of men attack one or a handful of women in public. I really don't see how anyone could deny that cultural factors are involved in this sort of thing.

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009


Stew Man Chew posted:

Yeah I wasn't concerned about the blood donated, I would be worried about the donor keeling over and requiring attention from what I would assume was an already burdened hospital staff.

While I agree with you about the donors passing out, I wouldn't think the hospitals would be having too much difficulty, but I'm just guessing based on population and number of injuries though. 100 people in Boston doesn't sound very significant, depending on how severe the majority were. Obviously a lot are in really bad shape, but I'd imagine a good portion of those were routine cuts and bruises that required medical attention, and got sent right out the door after getting patched up. Unless the police are holding them up, that is.

SirFozzie
Mar 28, 2004


Most of the hospitals are on lockdown (in fact, I just saw a photo of a SWAT team at one hospital).. so good luck getting there

dusty
Nov 30, 2004


As an international viewer may I say that my impression of the US response over the last decade involved freaking the fuck out, stockpiling duct tape and politicians terrifying the populace with coloured threat warning systems warning of immenent attack for years.

God I'm relieved there's a Democrat in office this time around.


Other cultures handle things differently:


Britian - she may have lost her empire, but she knows how to harden the fuck up.

dusty fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2013 around 15:08

Mister Adequate
Oct 29, 2011


dusty posted:

As an international viewer may I say that my impression of the US cultural response over the last decade involved freaking the fuck out, stockpiling duct tape and politicians terrifying the populace with coloured threat warning systems warning of immenent attack for years.

God I'm relieved there's a Democrat in office this time around.


Other cultural responses to acts of terror


Britian - she may have lost her empire, but she knows how to harden the fuck up.

What the fuck even is this.

dvorak
Sep 10, 2003


dusty posted:

Britian - she may have lost her empire, but she knows how to harden the fuck up.

Hey, are you fucking cool?

Fandyien
Feb 9, 2012


dusty posted:

As an international viewer may I say that my impression of the US response over the last decade involved freaking the fuck out, stockpiling duct tape and politicians terrifying the populace with coloured threat warning systems warning of immenent attack for years.

God I'm relieved there's a Democrat in office this time around.


Other cultures handle things differently:


Britian - she may have lost her empire, but she knows how to harden the fuck up.

I have no idea what you're trying to say, but Boston's response seems to have been exemplary, and we haven't (actually) cared about those color coded warnings in years. I also don't really see the relevance of that poster at all, and there being a Democrat in office is also pretty irrelevant at this point. So good job with that, I guess?

Mr. Moon
Oct 22, 2007


dusty posted:

As an international viewer may I say that my impression of the US response over the last decade involved freaking the fuck out, stockpiling duct tape and politicians terrifying the populace with coloured threat warning systems warning of immenent attack for years.

God I'm relieved there's a Democrat in office this time around.


Other cultures handle things differently:


Britian - she may have lost her empire, but she knows how to harden the fuck up.

As a Brit, may I say you're a fucking cock for posting this dick-waving nonsense in here?

syntaxrigger
Jul 6, 2011


Paul MaudDib posted:

No, human reactions to events can easily be shaped by the social cues of the society they occur in. The idea that there can be universal human responses is patently absurd (or "idiotic garbage" since you prefer the version with a personal insult in).

Some societies consider lynch mobs a reasonable reaction to a slight, others would consider anything but courts unjustifiable, some might not consider it a slight at all. The reaction people have is based on social cueing.

evilweasel is a known idiot, lowtax only knows why he is a mod. Please disregard.


People are rushing to give blood but locals are saying the blood supply is in good shape.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

ThePkkKiller
Nov 1, 2012


dusty posted:

As an international viewer may I say that my impression of the US response over the last decade involved freaking the fuck out, stockpiling duct tape and politicians terrifying the populace with coloured threat warning systems warning of immenent attack for years.

God I'm relieved there's a Democrat in office this time around.


Other cultures handle things differently:


Britian - she may have lost her empire, but she knows how to harden the fuck up.

Dude come on. "Hardening up"? There was a 8 year old who died because of this.

Mattavist
May 24, 2003


Too bad Britain can't spell her own name correctly.

Chronojam
Feb 20, 2006


Keep in mind Boston was mocked pretty hard for their reaction to the Aqua Teen marketing a few years back, when those LED signs were put up for viral marketing purposes. At the time, it was viewed as "freaking out."

Also this is not the Britain thread, Boston stopped being Britain a long time ago.

Eruonen
Jul 9, 2012


dusty posted:

As an international viewer may I say that my impression of the US response over the last decade involved freaking the fuck out, stockpiling duct tape and politicians terrifying the populace with coloured threat warning systems warning of immenent attack for years.

God I'm relieved there's a Democrat in office this time around.


Other cultures handle things differently:


Britian - she may have lost her empire, but she knows how to harden the fuck up.

As a fellow international viewer may I say that you're a fucking idiot? This is not the time for this shit (in fact, it never is).

foot
Mar 28, 2002


dusty posted:

As an international viewer may I say that my impression of the US response over the last decade involved freaking the fuck out, stockpiling duct tape and politicians terrifying the populace with coloured threat warning systems warning of immenent attack for years.

God I'm relieved there's a Democrat in office this time around.


Other cultures handle things differently:


Britian - she may have lost her empire, but she knows how to harden the fuck up.

Right, just being calm. Stiff upper lip and all that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_...rles_de_Menezes

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