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evilweasel posted:I read that more as "these 5 didn't get ruled out and we are treating as bombs" rather than "these 5 are definitely bombs". The article rather specifically calls them explosive devices, and "render safe" is a fairly specific term. EDIT: Actually, I take that back. "Render safe" could mean they blew the hell out of something they weren't sure about, so without additional confirmation I would take this with a grain of salt. Beer4TheBeerGod fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2013 around 17:11 |
# ? Apr 15, 2013 16:59 |
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Oh god Mr. False Flag keeps yelling shit.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:00 |
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Paul MaudDib posted:So you think that people are genetically predisposed to overreact to Muslim terrorism, or genetically predisposed to electing leaders with an axe to grind, or that our suddenly shifted on 9/11 without our bodies rejecting all of our internal organs, or what? I believe that you've made no reasonable argument that Norway is culturally better at reacting to terrorism than America is. That is because the sole argument you offered was a comparison of the reaction to two specific terrorist attacks but upon examination of the examples the difference is what happened in the terrorist attacks rather than cultural differences. When controlled for those differences, your argument lacks any support. The things you're claiming in this post about what I am saying are just sort of nonsense.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:02 |
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Oh god Mr. False Flag keeps yelling shit. How do these people get the credentials to be in a major press conference, let alone ask the first question? I'm genuinely confused
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:02 |
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Anything reported within 24-48 hours is obviously subject to revision, but if there were actually other devices I'm really glad they didn't go off. Today's been a horrible enough day for the city, I think. dusty posted:Thanks for your insightful contribution you chucklefuck. You're operating on such an ill-informed, goony level that I'm genuinely astounded by it. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=jean+charles+de+menezes
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:03 |
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:Literally first question at the press conference is about it being a false flag attack to take away are civil liberties. Thanks, Alex Jones. "Yep, it was a false flag carried out by the CIA in conjunction with the Boston PD and Massachusetts State Police. We're going to get your guns, then we're going to get your bibles, and then you're going to marry some Muslims."
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:04 |
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cymbalrush posted:How do these people get the credentials to be in a major press conference, let alone ask the first question? I'm genuinely confused I'm not sure what their procedures are but I'm sure those procedures will be changed.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:04 |
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Mister Adequate posted:"Yep, it was a false flag carried out by the CIA in conjunction with the Boston PD and Massachusetts State Police. We're going to get your guns, then we're going to get your bibles, and then you're going to marry some Muslims." "Sorry- I misspoke. You're going to gay marry some Muslims."
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:05 |
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:I'm not sure what their procedures are but I'm sure those procedures will be changed. Profiling people with goatees.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:05 |
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Anyone got a link to a stream of the press conference? Sorry if I've missed it in the past few pages, they've been kind of hectic.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:06 |
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I think it's over, should be thrown on the youtubes soon. e: Remember when I said "thanks, Alex Jones?" Turns out, Yelly McConspiracypants actually was with Infowars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQWH2epffQY KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2013 around 17:09 |
# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:07 |
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evilweasel posted:I believe that you've made no reasonable argument that Norway is culturally better at reacting to terrorism than America is. So you're retreating from the claim that cultural factors have no impact whatsoever on reactions to events? evilweasel posted:The general reasons it works so well (availability heuristic; extremely bad weighting of probabilities; fear of things 'outside your control' over things 'inside your control') are universal human cognitive failings and I'm not aware of any valid evidence to suggest there are cultural factors involved. It's just generally people thinking that they are smart while other people are dumb and rationalizing that (and they're wrong: everyone falls victim to these, even people very well versed in them). evilweasel posted:Because we have a full explanation without a "cultural consideration", and the "cultural consideration" is obvious garbage (americans are dumb and violent). We do not need cultural explanations to understand why it works and cultural explanations are frequently simply the authors biases cloaked in pseudoscientific terms. It would seem that you have retreated from that absolute position (cultural factors are obvious garbage and there is no valid evidence that cultural factors affect human responses) to a more specific one (cultural factors are the primary difference between OKC and Ft Hood but not between Norway and the US). I wasn't trying to make a specific claim that Norway was particularly good so much as modern American responses to terrorism are particularly bad post-9/11. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2013 around 17:15 |
# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:09 |
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Also to add that the UK reaction to the July 5th bombing was, like the US, enacting drastic new terror laws which are still on the books. These have since then been used to do everything from hassling various undesirables, supressing protests etc, to being abused by local councils (waste bins and catchment areas are serious business...). The reaction to the UK riots was utter hysteria followed by drastic sentences (well outside guidelines) being handed down to all and sundry. Whilst like in the US you can point to heroic first responders and so forth we still get the reactionary backlash over here as well. We're not a superpower though so most people don't need to care about our domestic laws headlines and politics so I can fully understand how people might have missed this.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:11 |
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Paul MaudDib posted:snip Can you people make your own thread? This derail keeps making me think there's new details.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:11 |
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FBI is still "no commenting" the devices, and BPD Commissioner Davis explicitly says "no devices" for the time being.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:12 |
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evilweasel posted:His description of my point is inaccurate and I responded to his point. You haven't offered anything new besides complaining so there's not really any point in responding to you repeating it. However for a general description of the factors at issue: You've presented this as being entirely set and uncontroversial with no room for disagreement, however I believe what Ambrose and others are attempting to disagree with you is based on Cultural Dimensions Theory. The basic overview: quote:Geert Hofstede's theory of cultural dimensions describes the effects of a society's culture on the values of its members, and how these values relate to behavior, using a structure derived from factor analysis. The theory has been widely used in several fields as a paradigm for research, particularly in cross-cultural psychology, international management, and cross-cultural communication. Hofstede developed his original model as a result of using factor analysis to examine the results of a world-wide survey of employee values by IBM in the 1960s and 1970s. The theory was one of the first that could be quantified, and could be used to explain observed differences between cultures. You're presenting your view as the only one in existence beyond question, but those of us disagreeing with you do have a basis for our assertions.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:13 |
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Paul MaudDib posted:So you're retreating from the claim that cultural factors have no impact whatsoever on reactions to events? Again, he was making no such claim. He was responding to a very specific claim made by another poster: zoux posted:Unfortunately, terrorism is so effective against Americans because we are easy to scare, cannot comprehend risk in any meaningful way, and go completely bonkers after every terrorist event. If this was done by an Islamic terrorist (which I have no evidence or inkling of) you can bet the US will go mad with bloodlust and demand we invade some country, and the right and left-hawks will whip these people into a frenzy. You responded with this: Paul MaudDib posted:Broadly speaking, you're correct. Look at the difference between how Norwegians deal with someone like Brevik and how Americans flipped out about 9/11 or Benghazi. When Americans get attacked, we fly off the handle and invade countries (sometimes totally unrelated ones), start threatening genocide against minorities (happened with 9/11 too), pass shit like the Patriot Act, and enact a bunch of useless security theater. Norwegians locked the dude up and got on with life. EW is (correctly) stating that this is a poor comparison and that a comparison with OK city, where nobody flew off the handle, is far more apt.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:16 |
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:I think it's over, should be thrown on the youtubes soon. I don't understand why the business owners don't throw them in the dumpster. This is your future, rest of America.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:17 |
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Well I heard some rumors from the hill that the attack was probably not from a major organized group, pretty much leaves domestic terrorism annnnd... today is tax day. The explosions seems pretty small for a foreign operation, however if it is domestic, the date might be a coincidence or something interesting.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:19 |
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In the GBS thread I've been trying to post a regular account of what it is that we actually know. Can you guys think of anything beyond the following that's concrete? 1) Two explosive devices went off within 20 seconds of each other at the finish line of the marathon. A better YouTube link can be found here. 2) An individual was seen on video placing backpacks inside the trash cans that exploded at the finish line. 3) No other devices have been confirmed. Boston Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) teams may be using controlled explosions to eliminate suspected explosive devices, as they are investigating every backpack and suspicious device, but no other devices have actually been found. 4) 3 people are dead, over 100 injured. 5) The fire at the JFK Library is not believed to be related at this time.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:20 |
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Ardennes posted:Well I heard some rumors from the hill that the attack was probably not from a major organized group, pretty much leaves domestic terrorism annnnd... today is tax day. The explosions seems pretty small for a foreign operation, however if it is domestic, the date might be a coincidence or something interesting. Are they ruling out major groups because they usually fess up to their bombings?
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:21 |
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:e: Remember when I said "thanks, Alex Jones?" Turns out, Yelly McConspiracypants actually was with Infowars:
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:25 |
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Omi-Polari posted:The rise of conspiracy media in recent years should be a thread in itself. The Infowars crew has taken to distributing magazines in a lot of restaurants and coffee shops here in Austin now. So the local free papers you can get in most places are the alt-weekly (the Austin Chronicle) and the Infowars magazine. Conspiracy media is less offensive, less harmful and way less influential than cable media. It's just another path to being totally misinformed about world events, which is the same outcome you get from watching CNN, Fox News or MSNBC.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:26 |
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truavatar posted:Again, he was making no such claim. He was responding to a very specific claim made by another poster: There are sadly many examples of countries that have experienced non-domestic terror. I don't think it's fair to compare reactions to domestic and non-domestic terrorism, because there are many more issues, such as othering and nationalsm, that come into play with foreign or religious terrorism. What were the reponses of Spain, Britain and India with respect to foreign policy and domestic security in response to their own high-profile foreign or religious terror attacks?
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:26 |
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Dusseldorf posted:Are they ruling out major groups because they usually fess up to their bombings? I think it is between the size and nature of the devices, and the lack of any claim, but I have no idea what authorities actually know at this point. That said, if I had to make some bets, yeah it at least seems domestic but it is still unclear the "politics" of any message. It could very well be just another guy that desperately needed some basic mental health care.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:27 |
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SedanChair posted:Conspiracy media is less offensive, less harmful and way less influential than cable media. It's just another path to being totally misinformed about world events, which is the same outcome you get from watching CNN, Fox News or MSNBC.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:29 |
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SedanChair posted:Conspiracy media is less offensive, less harmful and way less influential than cable media. It's just another path to being totally misinformed about world events, which is the same outcome you get from watching CNN, Fox News or MSNBC. Its InfoWars. The guys who practically threatened a nice old Grandfather to one of the kids in the Newtown shootings. They are scum of the earth.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:31 |
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djw175 posted:Can you people make your own thread? This derail keeps making me think there's new details. Seriosly, if you don't want people debating or discussing how about you fuck off? Get an RSS feed or read the Guardian or something.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:31 |
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:Are you really about to claim that conspiracy media is less offensive than cable media and results in an equal amount of misinformation? I know that hyperbole can be tempting in D&D, but come on dude. Conspiracy media results in a different kind of misinformed audience, but it's arguably less dangerous/offensive because it doesn't have the sheen of legitimacy that cable news has.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:31 |
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Anukis posted:Conspiracy media results in a different kind of misinformed audience, but it's arguably less dangerous/offensive because it doesn't have the sheen of legitimacy that cable news has. Well, to normal people it has no sheen of legitimacy. To quacks, its the god honest truth, and the quacks are the ones who I'm more worried about, not some guy watching Fox news and pouring his outrage at Obama out in the weekly editorial to his local paper.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:33 |
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Ardennes posted:It could very well be just another guy that desperately needed some basic mental health care. Without going all no true Scotsman on you, what kind of person would plant and detonate two bombs like this and NOT need mental health care?
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:33 |
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:Are you really about to claim that conspiracy media is less offensive than cable media and results in an equal amount of misinformation? I know that hyperbole can be tempting in D&D, but come on dude. How many wars has Infowars started? How many people believed Cheney's Plan B intel was legit because it was parroted breathlessly by pundits?
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:33 |
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Anukis posted:Conspiracy media results in a different kind of misinformed audience, but it's arguably less dangerous/offensive because it doesn't have the sheen of legitimacy that cable news has.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:35 |
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SedanChair posted:
And the award for "Post that would be right at home on Free Republic" goes to...! (its you)
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:36 |
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CommieGIR posted:Well, to normal people it has no sheen of legitimacy. To quacks, its the god honest truth, and the quacks are the ones who I'm more worried about, not some guy watching Fox news and pouring his outrage at Obama out in the weekly editorial to his local paper. Sure, but I just meant that the level of harm done by the repetition of commonly accepted yet easily disproven lies in cable media (the incessant focus on fake crises that conveniently lead to drastic policy changes that hurt ordinary people, for instance) is probably worse than the harm brought on by people who make their purchasing decisions based on who's advertising on George Noory/Alex Jones this week.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:36 |
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SedanChair posted:How many wars has Infowars started? Well, at least one if you believe the name! ![]()
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:37 |
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Anukis posted:Sure, but I just meant that the level of harm done by the repetition of commonly accepted yet easily disproven lies in cable media (the incessant focus on fake crises that conveniently lead to drastic policy changes that hurt ordinary people, for instance) is probably worse than the harm brought on by people who make their purchasing decisions based on who's advertising on George Noory/Alex Jones this week. You can argue that sure, and while the fanbase of people like Alex Jones and Info Wars isn't nearly as big as, say, Fox News, its still a minority that generally takes a more...heavy handed approach to what they hear on their propaganda shows. Think Doomsday Preppers.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:38 |
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:That's completely different that asserting the information is of comparable quality, which is absurd. And I really don't think that mass-media sensationalism and narration is less offensive than right-wing conspiracy loon horseshit like Infowars' knee-jerk reaction to today's events. It may be more dangerous because of its broad reach and supposed legitimacy, but that's a completely different issue. No, that's obviously untrue. For example during the election none of the major outlets pointed out that polling was accurate, instead giving equal time to crank Republican theories. The need to curry favor and gain access has resulted in the dissemination of active disinformation as neutral reporting. For all the problems conspiracy-based media has, it doesn't have that one. For me it is less offensive because nobody important takes it seriously (see Thomas Friedman on anything other than mustache grooming tips). Mrit posted:And the award for "Post that would be right at home on Free Republic" goes to...! It's actually you, because you're an antsy joiner who feels the need to try and categorize me.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:39 |
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Grundulum posted:Without going all no true Scotsman on you, what kind of person would plant and detonate two bombs like this and NOT need mental health care? I can oppose the views of someone and their actions, without thinking they are nuts. Terrorism is an extreme act, but it doesn't necessarily have to be irrational. It is pretty unlikely in this case this was an especially rational act because of the circumstances. You could probably come up with a story though.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:39 |
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Omi-Polari posted:The rise of conspiracy media in recent years should be a thread in itself. The Infowars crew has taken to distributing magazines in a lot of restaurants and coffee shops here in Austin now. So the local free papers you can get in most places are the alt-weekly (the Austin Chronicle) and the Infowars magazine.
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# ? Apr 15, 2013 17:39 |