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Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004


Highspeeddub posted:

Chris Matthews interviewing talking head 'experts' on explosions. Did not catch the guy's name but he said on TV, "We can't be sure, it's too soon to tell ... but in my personal opinion based on what I've seen I would say international terrorists. But it's too soon to say we don't have all the evidence yet ... "

Fuck that guy. They don't even know what explosive was used, let alone how it was initiated or anything else.

Again, this is what we know:

1) Two explosive devices went off within 20 seconds of each other at the finish line of the marathon. A better YouTube link can be found here.

2) An individual was seen on video placing backpacks inside the trash cans that exploded at the finish line.

3) No other devices have been found. Boston Explosive Ordnance Disposal (EOD) teams may be using controlled explosions to eliminate suspected explosive devices, as they are investigating every backpack and suspicious device, but no other devices have actually been found.

4) 2 people are dead, multiple injured.

5) The fire at the JFK Library is not believed to be related at this time.

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009


evilweasel posted:

While I expect this report is false there's enough daylight between custody and suspect being watched by police in the hospital who will be arrested if he leaves for that to not be a complete denial.

That's still "custody." I'd think in the interest of transparency that they'd say if that was the case. But I do see your point.

Zeitgueist
Aug 8, 2003


Highspeeddub posted:

Chris Matthews interviewing talking head 'experts' on explosions. Did not catch the guy's name but he said on TV, "We can't be sure, it's too soon to tell ... but in my personal opinion based on what I've seen I would say international terrorists. But it's too soon to say we don't have all the evidence yet ... "

Basically anyone making any kind of call with this little information is making shit up. These are literally the first people they could find who would go on TV.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006


evilweasel posted:

This is pseudoscientific garbage.

How's that? I'm stating an opinion, I didn't make any appeals to studies.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006


I think this guy was the FBI profiler who worked on the Oklahoma bombing, for context, not necessarily for credibility.

Joementum
May 23, 2004


Highspeeddub posted:

Chris Matthews interviewing talking head 'experts' on explosions. Did not catch the guy's name but he said on TV, "We can't be sure, it's too soon to tell ... but in my personal opinion based on what I've seen I would say international terrorists. But it's too soon to say we don't have all the evidence yet ... "

Since this happened in Boston you can very easily tell who knows what they are talking about during this event from their accent and ignore basically everyone else.

A DENVER FAX
Jan 19, 2012


greatn posted:

I think this guy was the FBI profiler who worked on the Oklahoma bombing, for context, not necessarily for credibility.

Ironically the last thing you should trust an FBI profiler for is a profile

Kieselguhr Kid
May 16, 2010


zoux posted:

As a white person I hate to chide African Americans about anything, but seriously, do they not get that the rhetoric used against Muslims today is identical to the rhetoric used against blacks and especially those active in civil rights and equality pre 1965?

Then don't. If you feel, by virtue of being white, that you should never criticise a black person's opinions then don't. Obviously we'll just have to delegate a black person to disagree with Erik for us so we're not being racists or 'whitesplaining'.

mintskoal
Oct 24, 2006


This is just the networks filling time with any idiot talking head that's willing to come on TV and spout shit for 5 minutes. Just turn off CNN/MSNBC/Fox or put it on mute at least.

cafel
Mar 29, 2010


Joementum posted:

Obama to speak at 6:10PM. Next local press conference at 7PM.

Can we expect anything more then a five minute long statement along the lines of the basic facts and that the countries prayers are with the victims?

Joementum
May 23, 2004


Speaking of people with Boston accents, Mayor Menino will speak at 6PM. Obama will speak at 6:10 and the next BPD press conference is scheduled for 7PM.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006


Kieselguhr Kid posted:

Then don't. If you feel, by virtue of being white, that you should never criticise a black person's opinions then don't. Obviously we'll just have to delegate a black person to disagree with Erik for us so we're not being racists or 'whitesplaining'.

Perhaps I should've said "I'm very careful about it".

A DENVER FAX
Jan 19, 2012


Blitzer: I want to caution our viewers not to leap to assumptions about who might be responsible.

Just gonna pretend the audience has the memories of goldfish huh?

HCO Plumer GCB GCM
Apr 29, 2010


cafel posted:

Can we expect anything more then a five minute long statement along the lines of the basic facts and that the countries prayers are with the victims?

What else would you like ?

Ray and Shirley
Jan 29, 2003


A DENVER FAX posted:

Blitzer: I want to caution our viewers not to leap to assumptions about who might be responsible.

Just gonna pretend the audience has the memories of goldfish huh?

Blitzer doesn't want any competition from the home viewer.

Highspeeddub
Apr 29, 2005


Joementum posted:

Since this happened in Boston you can very easily tell who knows what they are talking about during this event from their accent and ignore basically everyone else.

Precisely, and why I left the room because Chris Matthews makes my blood boil for this very reason.

This is making the rounds now.

A DENVER FAX
Jan 19, 2012


My eyes on the video keep focusing on that old guy in the orange shirt falling over.

Hopefully he is ok

Subterfrugal
Sep 8, 2011


Events like this really call attention to the downside of instant journalism. New information means page hits and everyone cribs off each other. The pessimist in me worries that the false leads and dead-ends of early reporting are purposely concocted to shape a narrative in a certain direction. We're three hours in and already seeing the "facts" that support any number of people's pre-conceived notion of who the bad guy is going to be. In the old days they'd be sifted and corroborated before dissemination. Now we're all but guaranteed to see them again forever in "youtube journalism" about what really happened.

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009


A DENVER FAX posted:

Blitzer: I want to caution our viewers not to leap to assumptions about who might be responsible.

Just gonna pretend the audience has the memories of goldfish huh?

The woman before him made a point of staying there was no confirmed suspect in custody, and that a lot of the people catching the blame were innocent Muslims. CNN not catastrophically fucking this up is just as shocking as the attack itself.

Paul MaudDib
May 2, 2006


zoux posted:

How's that? I'm stating an opinion, I didn't make any appeals to studies.

Broadly speaking, you're correct. Look at the difference between how Norwegians deal with someone like Brevik and how Americans flipped out about 9/11 or Benghazi. When Americans get attacked, we fly off the handle and invade countries (sometimes totally unrelated ones), start threatening genocide against minorities (happened with 9/11 too), pass shit like the Patriot Act, and enact a bunch of useless security theater. Norwegians locked the dude up and got on with life.

It's basically a result of how our news is primarily entertainment and stuffed full of propaganda from security theater salespeople and hawks.

Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at Apr 15, 2013 around 13:59

Chronojam
Feb 20, 2006


Highspeeddub posted:

Precisely, and why I left the room because Chris Matthews makes my blood boil for this very reason.

This is making the rounds now.



There were probably a lot of men on a lot of roofs because there was a marathon going on and most buildings have roof access.

Mister Adequate
Oct 29, 2011


A DENVER FAX posted:

My eyes on the video keep focusing on that old guy in the orange shirt falling over.

Hopefully he is ok

I know the exact guy you mean, because the way he goes down is probably the thing that freaked me out most here. It's really surreal, I also hope he's okay.

A DENVER FAX
Jan 19, 2012


Chronojam posted:

There were probably a lot of men on a lot of roofs because there was a marathon going on and most buildings have roof access.

Ok the library thing is now possibly an incendiary device but not a bomb?

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009


Paul MaudDib posted:

Broadly speaking, you're correct. Look at the difference between how Norwegians deal with someone like Brevik and how Americans flipped out about 9/11 or Benghazi. When Americans get attacked, we fly off the handle and invade countries (sometimes totally unrelated ones), pass shit like the Patriot Act, and enact a bunch of useless security theater. Norwegians locked the dude up and got on with life.

It's basically a result of how our news is primarily entertainment and stuffed full of propaganda from security theater salespeople and hawks.

You're missing a couple extreme distinctions between those events.

dorkasaurus_rex
Jun 9, 2005


Mister Adequate posted:

I know the exact guy you mean, because the way he goes down is probably the thing that freaked me out most here. It's really surreal, I also hope he's okay.

I heard some evidence that there were ball bearings in some of the bombs, probably placed with the intent to maximize damage. It does look as if he gets hit pretty hard from the side with an object of some sort, sending him to the ground, so perhaps that could be it.

evilweasel
Aug 23, 2002


Paul MaudDib posted:

Broadly speaking, you're correct. Look at the difference between how Norwegians deal with someone like Brevik and how Americans flipped out about 9/11 or Benghazi. When Americans get attacked, we fly off the handle and invade countries (sometimes totally unrelated ones), pass shit like the Patriot Act, and enact a bunch of useless security theater. Norwegians locked the dude up and got on with life.

Norway was comparable to Oklahoma City, a domestic lone-wolf, not 9/11. And the idea is idiotic garbage: why terrorism works is based on well-understood, universal human cognitive failings.

A DENVER FAX
Jan 19, 2012


Mister Adequate posted:

I know the exact guy you mean, because the way he goes down is probably the thing that freaked me out most here. It's really surreal, I also hope he's okay.

From what I read he wasn't hit by shrapnel like I thought, he just lost his balance.

cafel
Mar 29, 2010


HCO Plumer GCB GCM posted:

What else would you like ?

Oh nothing. I guess that it just struck me that it seemed a bit earlier for the president to be making a statement when even the local statements are very sparse.

RedFlag
Nov 22, 2007


Red_Mage posted:

Canada does. It looks surprisingly reasonable, if you knowingly publish false news, and there is harm, the CRTC (Canadian FCC) can come down on you in a variety of ways.

Yes, and we still do despite the (Conservative majority) government attempt to remove these restrictions. Popular outrage saved the day.

Here's hoping some facts can be established quickly and minimize the bullshit.

Spiritus Nox
Sep 1, 2011


Paul MaudDib posted:

Broadly speaking, you're correct. Look at the difference between how Norwegians deal with someone like Brevik and how Americans flipped out about 9/11 or Benghazi. When Americans get attacked, we fly off the handle and invade countries (sometimes totally unrelated ones), start threatening genocide against minorities (happened with 9/11 too), pass shit like the Patriot Act, and enact a bunch of useless security theater. Norwegians locked the dude up and got on with life.

It's basically a result of how our news is primarily entertainment and stuffed full of propaganda from security theater salespeople and hawks.

While I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment, this seems like quite a bit of a false equivalency.

zoux
Apr 28, 2006


evilweasel posted:

Norway was comparable to Oklahoma City, a domestic lone-wolf, not 9/11. And the idea is idiotic garbage: why terrorism works is based on well-understood, universal human cognitive failings.

So terrorism is equally effective/ineffective against all people worldwide regardless of cultural distinctions?

decarboxylated
May 3, 2006


Highspeeddub posted:

Precisely, and why I left the room because Chris Matthews makes my blood boil for this very reason.

This is making the rounds now.



If I lived or worked in a building with roof access over the boston marathon finish line, thats where i'd have been today too, I'm not sure that guy is meaningful.

Pead
May 31, 2001


A DENVER FAX posted:

Ok the library thing is now possibly an incendiary device but not a bomb?

The library says that it was an electric fire most likely unrelated to the attack

https://twitter.com/JFKLibrary

A DENVER FAX
Jan 19, 2012


zoux posted:

So terrorism is equally effective/ineffective against all people worldwide regardless of cultural distinctions?

No

But you also cannot predicate a culture's "predisposition" to responding to a terrorist act by comparing a single act by an individual to a massive coordinated strike by a paramilitary group

Munin
Nov 14, 2004


zoux posted:

How's that? I'm stating an opinion, I didn't make any appeals to studies.

If you want pseudoscientific garbage I'd talk more about psychological distance between perpetrator and victim with the results of attacks from domestic perpetrators being treated very differently in the public psyche than attacks by people from outside the country as opposed to any inherent failings of the American populace.

In addition people in general are not set up to evaluate rare risks of catastrophic events and either over or underestimate their impacts and likelyhood. Again that is not a singular failing.

In any case, my thoughts are with the victims. I hope they find the person(s) responsible and clear up the how and the why.

Volkerball
Oct 15, 2009


cafel posted:

Oh nothing. I guess that it just struck me that it seemed a bit earlier for the president to be making a statement when even the local statements are very sparse.

He has to come out as soon as possible and say "TERRORIST. ATTACK. I SAY AGAIN. THIS WAS A TERRORIST. ATTACK," so people can't claim he said it was a spontaneous attack by marathon runners.

Kieselguhr Kid
May 16, 2010


zoux posted:

Perhaps I should've said "I'm very careful about it".

Your last post already proved you weren't, and this one too.

Seriously, I do not understand why the latest demands for politeness are that you tie yourself into knots talking about or to someone different than you. Once upon a time 'I feel uncomfortable talking to black people' was something racists would say, now it's apparently a ritualistic incantation white people need to say to assure people (themselves?) they're notracist.

Forget it. This is not the place.

Chamale
Jul 10, 2010


A DENVER FAX posted:

From what I read he wasn't hit by shrapnel like I thought, he just lost his balance.

I've seen photos of him needing help to get up, so his eardrums are probably blown in. Hopefully he makes a full recovery.

Pead posted:

The library says that it was an electric fire most likely unrelated to the attack

https://twitter.com/JFKLibrary

The library was installing a lot of electrical equipment last week, I wonder if that had anything to do with it.

evilweasel
Aug 23, 2002


zoux posted:

So terrorism is equally effective/ineffective against all people worldwide regardless of cultural distinctions?

The general reasons it works so well (availability heuristic; extremely bad weighting of probabilities; fear of things 'outside your control' over things 'inside your control') are universal human cognitive failings and I'm not aware of any valid evidence to suggest there are cultural factors involved. It's just generally people thinking that they are smart while other people are dumb and rationalizing that (and they're wrong: everyone falls victim to these, even people very well versed in them).

crackton
May 9, 2009


Highspeeddub posted:

Precisely, and why I left the room because Chris Matthews makes my blood boil for this very reason.

This is making the rounds now.



I saw that picture an hour or two ago and the first thing that came to mind was "I wonder how long until someone tries to link that guy on the roof to the bombing?"

Not long I guess

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